Jerna van Vooren
Hello, puppies and kittens, and welcome to State of Z Nation. Today we are looking at the very first episode of Z Nation, appropriately titled Puppies and Kittens, and my guest today is a writer and podcaster. He wrote the novella *As the Shore to the Tides* so blood calls to blood. His work has appeared in Typebar Magazine and Seize the Press. He’s also the host of the podcast *Podside Picnic* It’s Karlo Yeager Rodriguez. Karlo, how are you doing? I’m
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
doing great. Yeah, I I don’t know whether I’m a puppy or a kitten in this scenario, but either one doesn’t sound too great. No, because we know.
Jerna van Vooren
So yeah, basically is I don’t know why it’s called they call zombies puppies and kittens like a, I don’t know, like some kind of warning signal. But
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
I feel like it’s it’s sort of like a code name. But it also this, I guess it’s it’s trying to do a thing that’s sort of annoying because it’s called you know like they call them the Z’s, which is really annoying. Yeah, zombies. We know we know what zombies are. Come on, you don’t need need to reinvent it.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, it’s kind of weird because you have. I want to say you have a military background. You were in the navy or the?
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
Oh well, yeah, I was in the navy, but like honestly, I mean, yes, that’s technically a military background, but like honestly, the majority of what I what I did was make sure that a certain stretch of our hall our our hallway outside of our division would be waxed. I worked night shift for like eight months. It broke me in it broke my brain in certain ways but yeah like I I didn’t see any combat or anything like that the closest I ever got to anything like that was when I was being shipped out and I spent like apparently like 36 hours in some weird out, some weird base in Jeddah in Saudi Arabia, which felt like it was like essentially like 15 trailers laid, you know, like side by side, full of guys, like military guys that were just sort of bored to tears because there was nothing there except sand, and then we ended up getting driven into whatever the local-I guess Jenna would be the local city or whatever-to eat some some food there, which was delicious. I mean, it was local food at least, but but like that was it. That was the the extent of like connection to anything that it resembled other human beings. It was just like, yeah, man, do you want to play cards the 57th time? No, I get it. Why? I get why not.
Jerna van Vooren
Understand. I feel bad for asking now. Hello, editing. You’re not here, so the reason why I asked Carlo his military background is because the military is known for making new definitions out of existing words. The infamous one kilometer is becoming cliques. So I asked Carlo on Discord if calling zombies puppies and kittens goes against that because it’s ultimately a more longer term than zombies. And he responded with, “No, it’s an absurd way to show it, but it tracks. So, and we never got around it. So that’s why I’m giving this brief clarification. Okay, now back to the episode. I just wanted to ask: you have some military experience? No, no. I mean,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
yeah, don’t don’t feel yeah, don’t feel too bad because, like, I think one of the things that’s often downplayed in a lot of these types of scenarios because, like, let truth be told, like, part of the the the show that we’re going to talk about and a lot of this zombie apocalypse type media always seems to sort of gravitate around like military people and and you’re like them sort of like doing something here in this case like this is the first episode and there’s it’s essentially like an es the beginning of an escort mission. To bring like some guy who apparently has survived zombie bites due to a vaccine he received to a research facility like across the country in California, which you know
Jerna van Vooren
yeah
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
cool premise they set it up really easily I think it’s it’s it’s not difficult to follow. I do want to give them credit for not trying to make this like too somber or like I don’t know like oh this is about the decline of humanity or you know like whatever. It’s just sort of like there there there’s Harold Perino. You know they wisely cast him for for one episode apparently, but we’ll get into that. We’ll get into that because it’s great. I do have to admit, I I sort of enjoyed that. It serves so stupid. I was like, oh, see, that was that was what the Zack Snyder Dawn of the Dead movie actually needed it needed this what this show has in this first episode, but anyway yeah so what I going back to the military aspect I feel like a lot of what is shown is always the action parts right to a certain extent, like being in the military sucks, sucks because essentially, I mean, there is a cliche phrase. It’s like hurry up and wait, but that’s like exactly what a lot of your life is at a grunt level. Is just you’re told to show up at a certain place, you better be on fucking time because you’ll get written up. But whatever it is that you’re supposed to be there for, it whatever it is can be late as fuck. It doesn’t matter. No one in in command is ever to be held accountable. You, however, for not showing up on time when you were ordered to, will be. And I mean, it is. I just mention it because it’s something that is always somewhat missing from these types of things, where you know, like, yeah, like, for all I know, Harold Perno was originally like he he just did logistics. He he sat behind a desk, and suddenly he’s like, and he has to be an action hero. That would be funny.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah. Have you ever seen the film Waltz with Bashir?
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
Wait, which one? Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Waltzing Liz Bashir
Jerna van Vooren
or a long time
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
ago. Yeah, a long time ago. But yeah, I did see it. I can’t really say that I could judge it fairly now because it’s been a long time, but it’s a weird. It’s a weird movie.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, it’s a weird movie, and it you were remind you were talking about how the military like feels, and I I just was reminded of that film because that one had a clear. It portrayed the boredom and the madness of military life to an extent. Yeah,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
yeah. I mean, I think that that’s refreshing to see, and I think that that would also. I don’t know that would prevent anyone from like you like. I don’t know that media or fiction by itself does anything, like, as in like an activism type of thing, but I do think that like if you portray things more realistically like that, I remember that one of the critiques I I remember hearing of something like a book like The Forever War, where it just there’s long stretches where it’s trained just how boring being on these ships as a like a a space marine could be, and I I remember a good friend mentioning that he didn’t really like it very much and I was like yeah but that was the point you’re like this is I think that this is a great example of how that feels, right? This idea that you’re okay, well, like there’s parts in in the Forever War where like the main characters like they’re strapped in, they’re they’re near light speed, and then suddenly over the intercom, the the squawk box goes that yeah, oh well, we’ll be engaging in evasive maneuvers for the next 12 hours because you know like five our enemy fired at us five light years away or whatever. It’s just like what, huh? It just feels so boring and like rote and just like that sounds like such a bad time. Why would I ever? Why would I ever enlist? So you know. Anyway, yeah. Go ahead.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, but we’re not here to talk about good fiction. Well, yeah, yeah. Fair
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
enough. I mean, look, look. I will. I will defend from what I saw. This at least was a. A little bit more fun and less, less much less self serious than something like The Walking Dead. Yeah, yeah. Like I, it sounds like I’m being harsh on it because it’s like, oh yeah, they call them Z’s, and it’s sort of silly and corny or whatever, because it’s sort of trying to differentiate how this show is not really about zombies. It’s about the Z’s, man, and it’s like, yeah, that’s the same thing, the same thing.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
but but I do think that like from what we saw here, it it moves at a really good pace. I will say that it doesn’t it doesn’t take itself too seriously, but it also yeah, like it. I feel like part of it is because it understands that it’s sort of almost like a web series type of show rather than like shot on film type of thing. Like, like the the Walking Dead. You know, like I feel like the Walking Dead is so serious, but also it’s like it’s shot with a certain way and so on and so forth.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
you can get into it, but like I think this is much more like a web series type of feeling. You know what I’m saying?
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, is is it the budget reasons or that kind of feel?
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
I mean, I feel like part of it is the film, the film use, the the film that’s used is very much like that. I I can’t describe it exactly, but it’s the same type of film stock that that you that you would use for like a soap opera, where it’s it’s it has a different sort of aspect to it, and and it just looks different. It doesn’t look sort of grainy. The grain is different, I suppose, on the film stock itself. If if this is being filmed, which I’d imagine maybe still because this is like this ran from 2014 to 2018. Yeah,
Jerna van Vooren
at least yeah, it’s already 12 years old. Damn.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
Yeah. Well, I mean, it’s it’s wild to me because I was actually I’m trying to see when The Walking Dead started. So this is four. This started four years after The Walking Dead started. So it you know there’s a a wide variety of different zombie apocalypse type of properties, including what I assumed this was a a spinoff from what is it? The the Z World War Z. I swore that yeah, I swore that this was like because they were using Z in the same way. I was like, this has got to be a riff on that. It’s like, nope, not at all.
Jerna van Vooren
No, I think it’s its own thing. I know I’ve read some stuff on Wikipedia that the creators wanted to make this, like you said, much more sillier, less serious TV show than what what’s out there. But it’s kind of funny that it’s an asylum production as well, because when you think of the asylum, you always think of like mugbusters, like copying, copying existing movies, existing premises. Well, it it does it it did run concurrently with Walking Dead, but unlike the Walking Dead, this is its, it’s kind of the opposite of what the Walking Dead is doing. I’d say, like, I’ve only seen the first two seasons of the Walking Dead, but I remember reading of reading that they stay in, they usually stay a long time at these locations like the prison, or what else? I’ve read the comics.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
Yeah, like part of that is a weird, like this weird over reliance on using the source material, like instead of adapting it fully into whatever the medium is, it felt like they were trying to mimic the the way that those trade paper art, the the the arts that were usually collected in those trade paperbacks resolved right. So you have that big long prison sequence. You get the the initial ones, which are sort of fun because one. I think that one of the things, and and I I want to put a pin in my personal, like I I don’t often get very invested or interested in zombie apocalypse narratives for for some a couple of reasons. I want to circle back to get to that, but one of the things that is actually a plus for me about like this type of post apocalypse. Apocalyptic type of narrative is the the nomadic aspect where it can be like if you’re if you’re making a show an episodic show that would make so much sense because you’d just be moving on it’d be like kung fu adventures but with zombies in it, you know. You just sort of always moving, moving ahead to the next place to help someone new or whatever, you know. And that is always no. Go ahead. Go ahead.
Jerna van Vooren
I want to. I want to say that it’s just of Z Nation in general, like
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
yeah. I mean, I think that’s that. Yeah, like honestly, I I think that the way that this is set up, and I’m glad to hear that that further episodes. I only watched the first one, but further episodes seem to follow this same formula. It’s it’s refreshing because then you do get like that sort of part of what is, I think, almost as a mirror image of the utopian sort of narrative. Is the dystopian narrative also falls into sort of in this case you were touring the world that has fallen right in the utopia we’re touring the world that has become you know sort of like more utopic right it’s more fun it’s more inclusive here you’re actually watching you’re part of the the fun of it, and part of like this weird power fantasy of watching a post-apocalyptic narrative is that tour through the wreckage, and and being able to sort of point. I mean, like let’s face it, like the the ending spoilers for a movie that is, I want to say, probably 70 year old years old by now, if not more. The original Planet of the Apes. The whole point of that ending is that you can point and go, “Look, my God, that is you know that we we can point at a at a landmark and recognize, oh this oh this was all you know, like the U.S. or this is yeah. Oh, look, they’re in Vegas. I mean, the entirety of what is it? The Fallout games are exactly that. Like New Vegas is there’s a reason I feel that it hits very well. It’s because it’s located at a place that people want to visit.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, I should I should play New Vegas. I’ve
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
yeah I’ve never gotten into Fallout myself, but you know God God go with you, whomever wants to you know go for it. Yeah,
Jerna van Vooren
that’s funny. I’m I’m trans. I have never played New Vegas, which is apparently a staple. It’s it’s one of those games that became trans culture. I don’t know why, but yeah, I never played it.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
I would say that part of the part of the draw to it is exactly that it is a recognizable place. That like obviously, I’m sure that they have certain things that still look like old Vegas. Now it’s all you know fucked up, you know, because the apocalypse happened, or you know, or whatever, you know. I mean, it’s fun to be able to go, you know, look. I remember. I can recognize that thing. I recognize that reference. You know, that type of thing.
Jerna van Vooren
Basically, the Captain America. I understood that reference joke for like pop
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
culture and pop history, more or less.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah. So, but I should I should give a quick summary of what the episode is. It’s basically like three years after the start of the zombie apocalypse, and a small camp in upstate New York is visited by Lieutenant Mark Hammond and the convict Murphy, whose blood may hold the cure for the vaccine, and now they, after Lieutenant Hammond dies after an altercation with a zombie baby, a group of survivors is forced to go from New York to California to bring Murphy back to bring Murphy to the remaining CDC lab to process a vaccine from his blood.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
Yeah, like like they they end up like carrying on the the the mission, so to speak. Even though they, I I think they even discuss it before before deciding that yeah. That that would probably be the best, but yeah, like again, we you you mentioned it, and it is it is very funny to me that the only other zombie apocalypse media I could think of was in fact Zack Snyder’s Dawn of the Dead remake, where part of the end is exactly this idea of like this pregnant woman who ends up giving birth to a zombie baby, but see this this show went went the full you know went the distance and said you know what if the zombie baby they didn’t kill it right away.
Jerna van Vooren
Well, it wasn’t a zombie beforehand. It was just like a regular, ugly ass baby. If I can be honest, I was like, “Damn, that’s an ugly baby.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
Well, sometimes babies have bad vibes. You know, it’s just that was one of them.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, the baby is probably 12 years now. So, in real life,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
you know, one one hopes they grew out of that baby phase because oof.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
but um, but yeah, like I I I thought that that was such a um. Initially, I was like, “Oh man, this is gonna be fucking corny, isn’t it? And then, like, he ends up like basically getting murked by the baby zombie. I was like sitting there, like watching. I was like, “I just, I just watched this. I wasn’t sure how to feel. And then later on, I just thought it was fucking hilarious. It’s it’s it’s really just very funny to me.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, well, it it gets wackier as the show progresses, but and also there’s a bit more money in later seasons. Like from what I could read, every episode of season one was like $700,000 budget, and that’s.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
But that’s that seems a little low comparatively speaking. I mean, maybe maybe a little high for like what we’re talking about here, but honestly, like if because they do have a pretty okay cast. What is it, Kalita Smith? We mentioned. I did. I did. I did like that Harold Perino cast one exactly one check, and he’s like, “See ya. I’m off to do. I’m off to do from another zombie, zombie adjacent. I mean that-that’s I’m joking, but that was like it’s like a COVID era. So maybe four years later, he’s doing from, which is a sort of like a similar premise, except weirder. I don’t know. It’s I didn’t particularly care for it, but what is it, DJ Qualis? Which is like, what? What
Jerna van Vooren
is it supernatural? Was he? He’s in supernatural, I think. Yeah, because like,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
oh really? I I was trying to place him because I’ve I’m sure that I’ve seen him elsewhere, and I couldn’t place exactly where. I mean, I I know that he’s been in a bunch of movies and stuff like that. My name is Ernie. Creepshow
Jerna van Vooren
Fargo breaking. He was in a
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
show called The Time Traveling Bong. Oh, he was in one of the photos. Ah, cabinet of curiosities. He was Jenkins Brown’s voice. What a weird choice that was.
Jerna van Vooren
And who else was in it? Oh yeah, no, you
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
were right. He he was in Superno. So maybe I I remember him from that. So yeah, there’s a lot of stuff in here where he’s he’s Owen Lost. Okay, okay. So I probably also recognize him from Lost, way back in the day. But anyway, yeah, I also love that the the the fate of the world seems to rest on DJ Qualis’s what becomes at the end of the episode essentially a podcaster?
Jerna van Vooren
Yep. Well, he’s broadcast flattery.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
Flattery will get you everywhere, Joe. Thank you.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah. Well, that’s that’s that’s his role. He becomes citizen Z, like radio annex broad podcaster who like brings some levity to the world with some news against such.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
I mean, I think that that’s also like an interesting thing because he becomes sort of like the radio guy, but for the world.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
you’re like instead of being the radio guy for the mission. Like the yeah whatever the mission impossible type of thing is you know the he’s just like the guy that sort of like imparting wisdom as if he’s the voice of God or what have you
Jerna van Vooren
could be a good video game premise C Nation Hey you know
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
I I do think that this actually breathed a little life into a premise that that I I don’t particularly like and and I think we could get into it now right because one of the things and it’s very present in The Walking Dead like there it’s all over the Walking Dead, and that’s that’s from the source material because if I remember correctly, hold on, let me remember the Walking Dead. Is it Mark Willingham?
Jerna van Vooren
Robert Kirkman.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
There we go. See,
Jerna van Vooren
yeah, there we go. He he he was a weird, like I think he’s like a weird conservative guy. I wouldn’t
Jerna van Vooren
be surprised.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
I mean, yeah, but but that’s I think that that’s the thing, right? Like the the zombie apocalypse has become sort of like the the bacon meme of meme of like apocalypse, like doomsday prepper type guys, where it becomes like this. It’s just a fantasy, but it’s a very particular fantasy, and it it’s deviated in in a lot of these recent narratives, especially after like 911, it has deviated from what it used to be, which was a fear of essentially never, even in death, never escaping essentially slavery. I mean, this is part of the the zombie myth, is the idea that if you were a slave, at least death could be a release from your like you you could escape at the end of it all. You know if you you you’re unable to free yourself and whatnot. At the very least, the the last freedom you have is death, and if your if your labor is captured beyond death, then that’s really fucking grim, right? Yeah, and it’s it’s a very interesting and it’s a very interesting anxiety that’s based in very materialist ideas of labor and freedom, and you know, like the the idea, the balance between free will and whether you should, you know, whether you know coercing people to have to work for a living, and in this case, like obviously, you don’t really get anything in exchange if you’re a slave, but but like that idea of just never ending toil,
Jerna van Vooren
yeah,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
that sounds really horrible. But when you get like The Walking Dead, it takes on a very sanitized version of what I mean. What’s come boiling up to the surface recently, which is the idea of this invasion of the other into the heart of empire. You know where the good people are, right? And the Walking Dead has that so deeply; it is tough to really scrub that stink off of it. Even if you hire Frank Darabont to to direct the first couple of seasons, because it’s all about that. Like the, and and I mean, I know that it’s it. I I’m not saying that you can’t enjoy it. I’m not saying that if you do sort of enjoy zombie apocalypse type stuff, which you know it’s by now I I’m just I think it’s just like so old. It’s been done so much. It’s become boring. It needs to go into the ground and come back up again later on. But but what I’m getting at is you know if you out there enjoy it and don’t this isn’t me saying that you can’t. I’m just saying that for me, a lot of this sort of redounds and feels very linked with this idea of immigrants becoming you know, like vectors for disease, and they’re invading the country, and they’re mindless, and so on. And you, you, you sort of look at, look at where you we are now, and you think, oh, we have people that are currently, at least where I am in the U.S. talking about. Anyone who is not white,
Jerna van Vooren
yeah,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
yeah, that that goes against their interest as having low IQ, and you know, like this is you know that seems rather slight, but really when you think about it, okay, so what are the what are the zombies? They’re mindless, right? This is just simply the first sort of steps onto that particular pathway, and we like that’s one of the things that really, when that type of viewpoint is in a zombie apocalypse narrative, and often it is these days, it just turns me off. I just don’t like it very much.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, I can understand that. I feel like that’s the case with most zombie stories or post-apocalyptic stories, where you have to slay an infinite number of zombies, and I guess you could say that Z Nation sort of does it as well. But it’s like also, but it’s also like, but in this case, it’s more mindless violence than like commentary on migrants. In this game, I’d say.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
Yeah, yeah. I think I think one of the things that that at least this episode seems to avoid for me is this idea that the like the intro that you read is almost verbatim from like the intro to this to the show, where it leaves sort of like the how it happened vague enough that you like you realize that that’s not really the point of all of this. It just this is something that happened, and the the characters are not going to be in this. And I think that some of the schlockiness of it, it sort of leaning into some of the stuff that is sort of fun, right?
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
About I hesitate to say fun about just like doing video game stuff, but really that’s sort of what this feels like in a way, right? Yeah. Like the we we get that one scene where they’re doing. I did enjoy that they’re doing like a weapons deal out in a field somewhere out of some guy’s truck. I I rolled my eyes a little bit at the aluminum bat with spikes on it, but it is fun because yeah, it feels like very much like, like I said, like video gamey in the sense that, like, oh, this is a weapon weapons upgrade, or you know, this gives you plus five against zombies or whatever.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, it’s stupid.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
It’s it’s yeah, like I think the schlockiness of this really helps it get past that particular issue of mine and and the humor of it because it is really just a comedy horror type of show more than anything else. So the the light tone of it does help get across. I think one of the things that that just became just a chore to watch. Even I I never got past the first season of The Walking Dead, even though it was like the hottest show ever, or whatever you know that was on. Was just like it, just sort of like it was just sort of somber and like, oh, we’ve got to bring it back, man, or whatever. You know, it’s like what? Shut up, just whatever, man.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, it’s also like, good God, how long is the Walking Dead going? Like the the main show ended with 11 seasons, but it has 11 seasons.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
Yeah, and it’s got like a bunch of spinoffs by now. I mean, it’s gonna be it’s going to be the the Law and Order of of zombie shows, I think, where you you you know how Law and Order has like special special victims unit and what is it the other one criminal intent I’m sure that I’m missing there might have been a couple of other ones that we’ve missed over the years that that popped up and just lasted a season or two or whatever yeah like the the Walking Dead has become like its own like almost ecosystem by now, where it just has has continually created money and jobs for people. I mean, you know, power to them, I guess.
Jerna van Vooren
So I kind of wonder who’s the audience. Who’s the audience still watching it? Is is it just like Law and Order when you like put it on and just like watch
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
- I’ll I’ll say this. My my partner, it was a big The Walking Dead like head back in the day, and I’m gonna guess that most people that are just sort of like they they sort of enjoyed it back, but they didn’t really think too much about it. It was just something it was on. That they enjoyed, I guess there’s people like that that that thought that instead of like putting on The Office, they put on The Walking Dead.
Jerna van Vooren
Good God! What if The Walking Dead becomes like that comfort show in like 10 years, like The Office or Francis in the? I mean,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
I I would argue it probably is already. It’s just people don’t talk about it too much, you know.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah. Speaking of the well, there wasn’t like small walking that reference in it. Have you noticed
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
it? Oh, did did they? I didn’t notice. No. Yeah. When
Jerna van Vooren
Lieutenant Hammond and Murphy arrive at arrive at Blue Sky Camp. Lieutenant Murphy mention Lieutenant Murphy Lieutenant Lieutenant Hammond mentions that an ex cop in a prison like showed them the way and it was like the walkway
Jerna van Vooren
like
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
must be Grimes or whatever. Okay, okay, yeah, okay. Now that’s that’s cute. That’s cute. I’ll I’ll I’ll allow it.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, this is also kind of funny. Yeah, like go ahead.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, I wanted to say the asylum is like you you you associate like movies like you associate the asylum like money grabbing, making money of of like existing properties, but contrary to the Walking Dead, this lasted five seasons, which
Jerna van Vooren
well, I mean, it’s kind of when you
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
you’re talking about the asylum productions or whatever, yeah, yeah, and just to be clear, just I guess if anyone’s never heard of them, they they they do a lot of like direct to video type stuff or direct to streaming, I guess these days. So yeah, like like it’s it’s sort of like I suppose that they they follow that same Corpsman model, just like yeah, just fucking do stuff. Yeah, just yeah, put put it out, put it out there. Fuck
Jerna van Vooren
- Have you seen something of the asylum? Perhaps.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
I couldn’t tell you to be honest with you because I’d have to look. I’d have to look it up. But I am, perhaps not by choice. Let’s put it that way.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, because R.S. Benedict and I did Sharknado for the previous episode.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
Oh, okay. Yeah,
Jerna van Vooren
because the characters of Z Nation appear in Sharknado at some point in the subsequent sequels, so that’s why I put them in the podcast as well. But yeah, this this is kind of different because with Sharknado, it’s definitely like no effort. Like it’s from a for a documentary that the trailer for a documentary I saw says like they shoot a film in six days, so it’s like really, really no effort basically like in the script. But this this looks also very cheap, but there was like some effort in the world building, in the characterization. So this is definitely a step above what you what you assume a typical asylum production would be.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
And this, but this also came out on when when the Sci-Fi Channel turned to sci-fi with a Y.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
So maybe maybe they were forced to have to sort of conform to a certain production standard, or what do they call it? The house style for sci-fi. So
Jerna van Vooren
kind of funny. I’ve seen like three sci-fi shows, and all of them were horror. None, no sci-fi in
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
- I think that it’s just the plain fact that horror gets eyeballs. I mean, like something like Sharknado is a ridiculous thing, right? I I haven’t seen it myself, but I I can only imagine it’s it’s just amazingly ridiculous To watch, like obviously people watched it. Like Sharknado became like its own little underground hit by its like almost. I want to say that people said that they enjoyed it ironically, but what they really meant is that they actually enjoyed it. Period.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, and the funny thing is, the success of Sharknado led to the creation of Z Nation. It’s what made the asylum branch out into TV more. Though this and its spin of Black Summer are, I think, the only TV shows the Asylum ever produced. So, I don’t. Think that was that lucrative adventure?
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
I mean, yeah, I will say that that maybe I haven’t really looked into it, but I can only imagine that perhaps the fact that Syfy wanted this wanted to really sort of have this on their channel and it meet their sort of specifications to a certain degree, probably upped a little bit of the of the quality here.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
because like again, it sounds like I’m really like saying that it’s not good by calling it a web series, but it it it just is it is pretty kinetic. I think everything moves rather quickly, without and and I I will say rather quickly without necessarily leaving you sort of wondering anything in a bad way. Like you know, like they don’t over explain, but they don’t under explain either. I think that it’s interesting because they they trust enough that we know that we as an audience know enough about like zombie movies that some of some of the setup is going to be sort of standard right, and they just sort of like go through it real quickly, like like you said, like at the beginning of the show has that intro with you know like it’s been three years since the zombie outbreak, and that’s just perfect because yeah, it sort of like sets up the world that way. Boom, we’re past that.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, just like what was the year three AZ, and it’s like okay, no no specific time period given. It’s like okay, just get in and enjoy yourself. I also like the at at the beginning. That I think that’s like the first half is the best half of the episode, where someone is dying, and they have to shoot her. Oh, so she won’t come back as a zombie, right? Well,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
that’s the the the that blue blue sky community or whatever, right? And so it seems like they have come up with a new. I thought that was an interesting way to build up the world without like having a character who’s like see you understand ever since you know year one A Z you know as you know we had to deal with the people who died of natural causes coming back so yeah we just have the this. It’s become like a ceremony, right? Like a almost a quasi religious ceremony that they give the last rites to someone that’s basically on their deathbed by essentially putting a bullet in their brain. You know.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah. If it was up to me, I I’d wait till I was like zombified or something because I don’t want to be penetrating my brain when I’m alive.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
Fair enough. I I immediately thought because it I mean that that does ramp up the drama, but really what you you could do is you would have essentially like a like a euthanasia type of situation where you you get pumped up full of some sort of sedative or whatever, and then when when they when they hear the last heartbeat, okay, blammo, there you go.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, maybe maybe they didn’t have access to sedatives at the moment, so you make do with. I mean, yeah,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
yeah, you make do with what you got. There’s plenty of lead around, I guess. That granny. Oh, can we talk about Citizen Z real quick? Because apparently, so he becomes like almost. I don’t know if this is carried forward through other episodes. I’m going to guess from what you said, because he becomes citizen Z, that he is right. But it’s an interesting frame that, like, he’s at some northern, like some frozen wasteland, some base in a frozen wasteland. I feel like it’s
Jerna van Vooren
in the earth. It’s in the Arctic Circle so
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
okay okay, I mean probably best place to to be if you’re trying to avoid zombies because the cold will fuck them up.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, I think is it’s in the second episode I think where he has to like yeah no what what were you gonna say about Citizen Z?
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
I I just found it interesting because it’s it’s set up in a way that you think, oh shit, he’s fucked, isn’t he? Because like he’s he’s sort of like transmitting the last. He’s giving you said there’s a Lieutenant Hammond, which is Harold Parano. Character,
Jerna van Vooren
he’s he’s
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
sort of like giving him like the last instructions to carry the package, being Murphy, the the the convict that’s been zombie proofed essentially,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
take him to the CDC in California, and he’s supposed to catch a flight. And I did really enjoy like he’s watching the flight take off, and then the camera stays a beat, and then you see the flight um all the way, just like tumbling out of the sky. You’re like, oh no, that’s that’s not good.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, but I guess
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
yeah. I mean, also like, but I guess he’s also sort of like stuck there until he can figure out a way out.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, I mean,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
yeah, but I will say a fortified military base, you know, with sufficient supplies for a fortified military base, and you’re the only guy there. You might be able to, you know, tough it out for a while at least.
Jerna van Vooren
Oh yeah, he’s he’s. I think he he spends an entirety of the first season on the base, gets stars in the second season, and gets saved at the end of the season. Spoiler alert for a TV show that is already 10 years old and a small number of people still like or follow because I I was looking up Z Nation on YouTube and it still has like a. Yeah, I was looking. I was looking on YouTube for Z Nation and there was like a panel at a con where all the cast members were brought together, and it was like a con from 2025. So that was like fairly recent. So, so I think there’s like still a fan base, and I did look up A03 to see if there’s like some fanfic out there, and it’s like at least over 700 titles. So not big, but it’s like it’s it’s still there.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
I’ll give you one. I’ll do you one better. I’m just looking up on Reddit, and there is an R slash Z Nation, a subreddit dedicated to the whatever, whatever, 4000 weekly visitors, 208 weekly contributions.
Jerna van Vooren
Okay.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
So, I mean, I’m not gonna lie. That I mean, that may not sound huge for you know if you’re comparing it against like something like an MCU or whatever.
Jerna van Vooren
No, no. Like,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
but like for me, like I’d like to have those numbers for for for something that I wrote or made.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, like that’s pretty good, especially for like a sci-fi, the asylum show. I say, especially for one that’s like ended like eight years ago, had one small Netflix spinoff, and it’s like made with like the change they found in between the cushions of the sofa. Yeah.
Jerna van Vooren
So, well, okay. I I I keep I keep harping on the cheapness of its, it is, it is rather cheap looking. It’s rather, but
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
yeah, it’s. I mean, the the the production,
Jerna van Vooren
the production values are
Jerna van Vooren
not.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
Yeah, they’re not up to blockbuster standards or anything of the sort. But you know, like also, I didn’t really mind that so much. In part because this doesn’t really ever try to convince you that it’s supposed to be a blockbuster. No, absolutely
Jerna van Vooren
not.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
I think. I mean, again, I think that some of the some of what makes it that that pulls it over the finish line for me is the fact that it is comedy too, right? Yeah, like the humor in it helps it. But I’m sorry, I cut you off. You’re gonna say no.
Jerna van Vooren
What was I gonna say? Like I was gonna say it’s a it has a rather ambitious plot as well. Like go from go over the whole country from one point to the other, and like I not a I’m not I don’t know much about the U.S. So I had to like look up where upstate New York, upstate New York and California were, and it’s like that’s quite a distance. Like
Jerna van Vooren
yeah, yeah. So they have to like
Jerna van Vooren
do different kind of situations, different kind of like, because I’ve seen like what what they will, the kind of world building they do. It’s also rather silly and not so serious. But there’s like, it’s there. Unlike The Walking Dead, where it’s basically just sedentary, and they could have like easily done that. With the amount of money they had,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
right, right. I mean, even if they’re, even if they end up just sort of like doing, yeah, the movie magic that we all we all know and love, like shooting, what is it, Toronto is New York or whatever. Yeah, shooting one one place for another, it doesn’t really matter. Yeah, I think from what
Jerna van Vooren
I looked it up, it’s mostly Spokane, Washington, where they shot it.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
There you go. But but I will I will argue that at least Washington does have a variety of different sort of different what what’s the word I’m looking for an environment yeah like ecological environments to shoot in, right? You could shoot in the woods. You could shoot in even bigger woods. You could shoot near a lake. I’m I’m being a little glib, but like they they they do have a lot of stuff. Yeah, so you could sort of do that movie magic shit, and you know, just put a slap a title card, and it’s like, oh, they reached LA, and that’s it, you know. But but yeah, like I don’t think that the issue here part of it is that the issue becomes that it’s not so much the um the the veracity of whether they’re shooting on location or not-it’s you know they they they make a gesture towards it, and that’s I feel like that’s enough. Obviously, we we understand we as audience members understand that sometimes you know certain shows just don’t have the budget to go actually to like San Francisco on location, you know. But if you shoot something and you have something recognizable and you put a title card up, that’s enough for me. Especially if it’s a sort of sort of a schlocky show like this.
Jerna van Vooren
That is an episode later on in I think season four, and I I don’t know, but they have this introductory shot of I think it’s Chicago, but the way they played around was Chicago was overtaken by this green foam, so you see you obviously see them on a sound stage being surrounded by green foam, and the rest of the episode is also like set in a small barber shop.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
That’s that’s part of the yeah, that’s part of the part of the the movie magic, right? You decide where to put your cameras, you know where your scenes are going to be, and and decide that you’re like okay, so I I do think that that’s interesting, right? Because it it sort of is trying to do something. the The fact that it has a budgetary constraint means that it’s trying to do something a little differently than, say, something with the budget of The Walking Dead would do, which would be like a wide pan panoramic shot of like empty, you know, the empty city of New York or whatever, right? Which which costs an amazing amount of money, you know. Like it is crazy how much money clearing out an area of a city for even five minutes of a shot would be. So you you do you do what you can, and then you just shrink the frame down to a locale, right? A barber shop, like you said, or you know, and you make it human, you know, like bring it down to a human scale. Because I think that’s that’s also what helps this show is the fact that sure, there’s like this grander idea of capital S society out there and what that means after all this has happened, but really, you know, it just sort of really drills down into the interpersonal on a moment-to-moment basis, at least from what I saw in this in this episode, and you know, like for instance, Harold Perino is is there when they initially like back near the beginning of the of the episode. Harold Perino is there with Murphy when he gets injected, and like I thought that was an interesting scene because like he bugs out. He’s like, no, never mind. There’s zombies everywhere. Fuck that, and you know Murphy’s still tied to this medical table, and he’s like pleading with him to please don’t leave me to the Z’s or whatever. And we, you know, the last we see of Murphy before he shows up back shows back up again, you know, sort of with a bunch of bite marks on him, is you know him being sort of like essentially descended upon by like a bunch of zombies, yeah. So like, I I also enjoy the fact that you know like you get these weird and phantasmagorical images, but also it trusts you enough that like we never we never get. The in between scene where Harold Perino comes back and helps him out, you know, after he it show it’s proven that he hasn’t turned, or you know, a show that had more of a budget or less and or less sort of confidence in what it was doing would try to do that.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, like the when you see what was the actor’s name? Sorry, I forget Harold Perino.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
Perino, yeah.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, because when he returns, he has like this scar around his eye, so you assume like stuff happened in between.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
Yeah, yeah,
Jerna van Vooren
either rescuing Murphy or escorting Murphy through the wasteland. It’s it’s yeah yeah expression art through adversity is yes
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
yes I believe that that’s that’s a correct term art through adversity right
Jerna van Vooren
yeah I picked it up in a blanket review. So, but like it’s kind of like I think the most famous example is Monty Python and the Holy Grail, where they had no budget for horses, so they used coconuts instead, and it made for a much more memorable, it’s it’s an odd gag,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
and it it sort of aligns with the Monty Python sort of comedy, right? The the the sense of humor,
Jerna van Vooren
yeah,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
and and like you said, like it stands out. Like oh, they could have they could have tried to get a budget for horses,
Jerna van Vooren
yeah,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
but that would have just made them like look like every other medieval sort of like King Arthur thing, right?
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
So you know, now now you have coconut.
Jerna van Vooren
Yep, and an annoying fan base as as a result as well.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
I mean, yeah, yeah. I mean, guiltiest charge, I suppose.
Jerna van Vooren
I’m also in that category, so
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
I I I enjoy the Python stuff. I I will admit, you know, yeah, like sure, maybe that’s cringe, but fuck it, I enjoyed it.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, me too. I don’t
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
don’t. It’s a good it’s a good thing that most of the pythons died a long time ago, so we don’t have to know anything about them since then.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
especially John Cleese.
Jerna van Vooren
Especially John Cleese. Thank thank God, Eric Idle is one of the remaining members, who turns out to be a very nice guy. Maybe yeah.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
It is funny because it it does seem to be that Cleese is the the the true shithead of the entire group. I mean, Graham sadly died a little too early for us to find anything out about him. But Cleese has lived on enough that man, he’s just shut up, bold man. Idle, idle, Palin, and go ahead. I’m sorry. Go ahead.
Jerna van Vooren
I wanted to say you think Eric Idle is the British version of Weird
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
Al? Hmm. Not exactly, but I see where you’re going with that. Yeah.
Jerna van Vooren
So what were you going to say about Palin?
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
I mean, most of the other. I think the other guys are pretty okay. I think Palin was all right. Idols consistently proved to be okay. You know, what’s the other? Let’s hit the does the history.
Jerna van Vooren
And there we go. Yes,
Jerna van Vooren
Gilliam.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, we know about. Let’s yeah,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
but very very. I I gotta admit, I still have a soft spot for films, man.
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
yeah, it just is. Uh, very problematic. But anyway,
Speaker 4
yeah.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
Um, I I don’t know. Do we have any last thoughts? I don’t know what the the next thing that we want to talk about here.
Jerna van Vooren
I don’t know. So yeah, I don’t. I don’t know. I feel like I’ve seen. I’m looking through my notes. Nothing that stands out. Only that they meet like a girl in a cage and a sniper. But that’s like it. it. That’s, I. I think we said everything there was. There is.
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
Yeah, yeah. I think we covered. I think that the this is honestly, if I had to say one last thing, I’d say look. This is a pretty strong first episode for what I I thought was going to be a really sort of schlocky in a bad way sort of show, and and turned out to be sort of like surprisingly entertaining, and yeah, like Harold Pernod, I I love watching him. Show up again in different shows, even if it it seems to be he’s showing up in the same show over and over again. But you know, I’m glad he’s getting the getting those checks. That’s for sure. Yeah.
Jerna van Vooren
Hey, sometimes it’s nice to get paid as an actor. Yeah. Let’s see. Yeah. So, Carlo, are you going to continue Z Nation?
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
I may, I may. I just have a lot, a lot of things that I I want to and and need to watch at some time. But like from what I saw in this episode, I would watch more for sure.
Jerna van Vooren
Excellent, excellent. Yeah, definitely will continue this schlocky kind of this is also the reason why I’ve like kept up with it. Like I’ve continued all the five seasons, and well, well, it’s basic. Well, its spin-off show is basically the reason why I made this podcast because I want to have some more attention to it, but I also want to go through everything else beforehand.
Jerna van Vooren
Right, right. Plus, I got you. The spin-off
Jerna van Vooren
plus the spin-off show is like 16 episodes long, so that’s like a relatively short podcast. Yeah. So yeah, I think we’re nearing the end. So Carlo, where can people find you and plug your work?
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
So I have a variety of different little projects happening. You can always you know check check us out at Podside Picnic on Patreon. That is Patreon.com’s backslash Podside Picnic. I have my own website, which is lineofink.com. You could check my nonfiction editorial material out and and the different essays that I’ve helped edit for Seize the Press at Seize the press, and they also have a Patreon, as as well as just you know you can just check seizethepress.com, and lastly I do have a newsletter in which I am currently going through and serializing a novella that I wrote about two years ago, that is a sort of a sort of a follow up. It’s not a direct sequel. It’s it’s in the same sort of setting as as the Short of the Tides. So Blood Calls the Blood, and that is in my newsletter called Crosshatches through button-down email. So yeah, and you can find me in Blue Sky. I mean, under my name in Blue Sky.
Jerna van Vooren
I just wanted to ask: Are you going to like publish, put the serial into one publication. So,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Eventually, like we’re we’re currently at sort of the halfway mark, a little bit more than that. So it should be sometime before the end of the year. I should be able to get put it all together into one sort of ebook format. I haven’t really decided where to to put it. I may just put it up on itch again, like
Jerna van Vooren
yeah,
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
like as a short of the tides, but but we’ll see. Who knows?
Jerna van Vooren
Yeah, because I really I really liked as a short to the tide, so I also want to like read the follow up, but like yeah, I
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
get it. Yeah, and I
Jerna van Vooren
prefer e reader as well, so
Karlo Yeager Rodriguez
makes perfect sense. I mean, that’s that’s also part of what the the draw will be whenever whenever I I get it all out. You know, you know. Part of the draw is just having another format that’s all put together. Hopefully, has some you know really cool cover art, and and you know just something new out there.
Jerna van Vooren
So puppies and kitties, if you want to follow along, you can watch Z Nation for free on YouTube or Tubi, and we’ll see you for the next episode of State of Z Nation. Bye.
State of Z Nation was hosted and recorded by Jerna van Vooren in association with KS Media LLC. The theme was composed by DokPetra. Jerna can be contacted on Blue Sky at nextmooregoscinny.bsky.social or on Instagram at Jernaceous. Support State of Z Nation and other fine projects at Patreon.Kittysneezes.com. This has been a Kittysneezes production.